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政府组屋的价格

2013-03-26 22:59:18

以下的新闻令人深思。对不起,没有翻译成华文。

Ex-HDB CEO: HDB flats used to cost 3X median annual salary

At a lecture on the Singapore Public Housing Story, organised by the Centre for Liveable Cities on 20 March 2013, Dr Liu Thai Ker, who was ex-CEO of HDB and URA, made the call for public housing to return to the basics.

Dr Liu said the goal should be affordability.

Dr Liu’s call was backed by former Senior Minister of State and HDB Chairman Aline Wong, who reiterated that the purpose of public housing is to “provide a shelter over everybody’s heads”.

Dr Aline Wong said, “The asset part comes along because … property appreciates over a long time. But that is not our primary objective. People make money, accumulate savings … but we cannot promise that they will not lose (value in their property), depending on the property cycle.”

Dr Liu said, “Maybe we should go back to the basics in the sense that we should not, say, emulate condominiums — that require more expensive materials, extra this, extra that … go back to basics, keep housing prices affordable, let residents embellish the houses, embellish the interiors.”

He reiterated that the “core mission” of the HDB is to “provide affordable housing”.

“And in the process of providing that, we try to use whatever budget available to create the biggest possible floor area for the people and with minimum frills, minimum decorations and so on. By minimum decorations, it doesn’t mean that the buildings are not beautiful … if the buildings are well-proportioned, they are beautiful.”

Dr Liu added, “When I was CEO, we looked at the per capita GDP (gross domestic product) growth, the sector of people eligible for public housing, their income … and then matching that to our selling price and to our flat sizes. It was really a very detailed study.”

Dr Liu noted that in those days, flats typically cost about three years of an owner’s annual salary.

When Mah Bow Tan was the Minister for National Development, HDB Build-To-Order (BTO) prices were linked to HDB resale prices.

Since Mr Khaw took over from Mr Mah, Mr Khaw has de-linked resale and BTO prices by varying the discounts for new flats.

And recently during the Budget 2013 debate, Mr Khaw said the government aimed to bring down BTO flat prices in non-mature estates to around four years of annual salary “as it was before the current property cycle started”.

Indeed, the World Bank considers a ratio of 5 or under as affordable for local residents, while the United Nations has set the bar even lower, at 3. In any case, anything above 5 is surely considered unaffordable by both the World Bank and the United Nations.

In a slap in the face of the Goh Chok Tong’s government in the 90’s, Dr Ailine Wong said, “In 1989, when they liberalised the rule to allow private property owners to buy HDB flats and vice versa, I thought we were deviating from our principle of providing public housing to those who could only afford public housing. So now, we are back to a more basic principle, I am very happy about that.”

She added, “Going back to the basics of providing shelter … we are moving on the right path now by going back to more rental (flats), providing housing for the divorcees and for the singles… We are not deviating from emphasising that family is the basic block of society. (But) these people (divorcees and singles) are already there with a need.”

[ 本帖最后由 运开 于 2013-3-27 08:40 编辑 ]
robot 发表于 2013-03-26 23:01:18
嘿嘿,说不定马先生和许先生会质疑这位ex-ceo贱卖国家资产
古长龙的个人空间
古长龙 发表于 2013-03-27 21:25:15
卖组屋   到底开发商挣钱不挣钱? 还是亏本?
不平 发表于 2013-03-27 22:51:41
我邻居告诉我他十多年前在当时所谓的新镇买组屋时,这里既无地铁,又少公交,也没什么shopping mall, swimming pool, 只有一趟公交通往市区。
如果现在的组屋不带电梯, 而且是不带装修的最基本的组屋, 位置也比较偏,  应该可以便宜一大截。但不知几个人会买?
不平 发表于 2013-03-27 22:55:56
我邻居告诉我他十多年前在当时所谓的新镇买组屋时,这里既无地铁,又少公交,也没什么shopping mall, swimming pool, 只有一趟公交通往市区。
如果现在的组屋不带电梯, 而且是不带装修的最基本的组屋, 位置也比较偏,  应该可以便宜一大截。但不知几个人会买?
珊瑚草 发表于 2013-03-27 23:51:53
回复 #4 不平 的帖子
装修至少要1年薪水吧。
华林 发表于 2013-03-28 09:12:55


QUOTE:
原帖由 运开 于 2013-3-26 22:59 发表
以下的新闻令人深思。对不起,没有翻译成华文。

Ex-HDB CEO: HDB flats used to cost 3X median annual salary

At a lecture on the Singapore Public Housing Story, organised by the Centre for Livea ...
"public housing to return to the basics" 是不错,但“好命”的年轻人不一定要。时代改变了,人们心态不同了。
王运开
运开 发表于 2013-03-28 09:30:47
回复 #7 华林 的帖子
我想这句话的解读是从政府的责任的角度来看:

政府与普通发展商不同,政府提供住屋是以大众为目标,应该回归基本(return to basics)。当然,屋主要花多少钱去做内部装修,可以自己按照能力自己做决定,那不是政府的责任。
珊瑚草 发表于 2013-03-28 09:40:08
回复 #8 运开 的帖子
不是政府的责任,不等于政府不应该做。

当大多数人要求更好的住房和生活时,政府难道不应该尽量满足他们吗?
王运开
运开 发表于 2013-03-28 09:54:06
回复 #9 珊瑚草 的帖子
这的确是个不容易解决的难题。不是政府的责任,不表示政府不应该做,这种说法是对的。

问题是,做法上可能不同。我想,对于那些政府可以不做但想做的事情,做法可以更灵活些,更有伸缩性些。

政府如何在基本之外提供更好的服务是需要比较慎重的考虑。
robot 发表于 2013-03-28 10:01:47


QUOTE:
原帖由 珊瑚草 于 2013-3-28 09:40 发表
不是政府的责任,不等于政府不应该做。

当大多数人要求更好的住房和生活时,政府难道不应该尽量满足他们吗?
可是,大家看到的是组屋面积越来越小。。。
粗茶淡饭 发表于 2013-03-28 10:07:47


QUOTE:
原帖由 robot 于 2013-3-28 10:01 发表


可是,大家看到的是组屋面积越来越小。。。
那也许是事实,但是以前家庭成员多,现在家庭成员少也是事实。

如果以前的一家人(可能是三代同堂)可以一起挤在一房,二房或三房式组屋,那么他们实际的空间有多大?
珊瑚草 发表于 2013-03-28 10:35:49
回复 #10 运开 的帖子
我们都可以想象出一些更灵活的做法,不过却不了解这样的灵活性需要付出多少成本,而这些成本最终还是我们自己承担的,然后就有可能又有人要return to the basics。

政府不断地满足人民的需要,这是它的工作。问题是 “the basics” 可以便宜多少,有几个人会要?如果根本没有这样的需求,那么我们有什么要谈的呢?
珊瑚草 发表于 2013-03-28 10:37:02
回复 #12 粗茶淡饭 的帖子
现在好像有相邻的一大一小组屋可以给三代同堂选择。
王运开
运开 发表于 2013-03-28 11:04:22
回复 #13 珊瑚草 的帖子
如果政府的工作这么容易,不需要花时间去计算成本,花时间去推出有伸缩性的做法来满足不同人的需要,一味推出标准产品,那么我们还需要百万年薪的高官来干嘛?

个人认为,以三年到五年的薪金作为组屋价格参考是不错的想法,可能基本要求就可以由此作为出发点吧。

没有尝试怎么知道每人要呢?

[ 本帖最后由 运开 于 2013-3-28 11:06 编辑 ]
珊瑚草 发表于 2013-03-28 11:13:39
回复 #15 运开 的帖子
哈哈。。。所以这是政府的工作,就让政府去做好了。

我们只要谈谈具体的需要就好。
珊瑚草 发表于 2013-03-28 11:15:07
回复 #15 运开 的帖子
不是没有尝试,而是没几个人要了以后,才逐渐改变。。。
王运开
运开 发表于 2013-03-28 11:18:02
回复 #17 珊瑚草 的帖子
这个议题上,恰恰是HDB原首席官刘太格先生认为政府没有做。。。
光之子 发表于 2013-03-28 11:20:25
回复 #3 古长龙 的帖子
可以讓開發商賺錢,組屋的地免費就行了。
土地本來就屬於人民,作為大眾廉價住宅的政府組屋,土地就應該免費不算錢。
有誰認為這是掠奪國庫,就是在虐待剝奪人民,為斂聚奸臣當凌遲以謝國民。

[ 本帖最后由 光之子 于 2013-3-28 11:22 编辑 ]
王运开
运开 发表于 2013-03-28 11:20:30
回复 #17 珊瑚草 的帖子
是吗,有做吗?我以为政府一直在谈提升,提升,没有兴趣 Basics。。。

近来好像只听到教育部长谈回归基本 (back to basics) 。。。。

[ 本帖最后由 运开 于 2013-3-28 11:23 编辑 ]

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